At the epicenter of the tsunami
- Does your service work now?
"It is working in test mode in Kolomna and
- A little confusing, because your post has caused a lotof interest. What it looks like: we launched the application, here is the link to the site, everything works. People go to the site, there are no iPhone apps yet, but there is a profile. Many wrote that they had already left applications, and nothing happened.
- Yes, we collected statistics. We have a very interesting thing. The fact is that we have data that even Rosstat does not have.
- So you did it without running anything to collect statistics?
- Well, yes, because if you put out a fire like thisdo, for example, "Collector" and others, it turns out the local extinguishing of matches. And the problem is everywhere, and there are no “collectors” in Krasnoyarsk and in million-plus cities. They have their own local scammers ... For example, a girl contacted me about whom the Dog wrote. She says we drive around 60 bars in Leningrad, the car takes six thousand rubles. We take away glass free of charge, we bring and we hand over on two thousand. And it turns out that we have minus four, excluding depreciation and other expenses.
Photo: Anton Karliner / Haytek
- I also want to talk about the financial model, but it confuses me a little. It seems to you that this is normal? You told the users that we have a ready-made working service, hand over ...
- No, why, we said wrong. Have you tried to install the android application?
- No, I do not have Android.
— Look, there is no iOS now, but they are looking for itpre-applications. That is, a person can leave an email, and when a letter arrives in his email, he will receive iOS. We have iOS ready, a boy from Rocketbank copied it for us for free. He said: “Why don’t you have iOS?” I say: “You know, there is no money for iOS.” He says: “Well, let me rewrite it for you.” I say: “Come on, can you really rewrite it?” He says: “Yes, I can, I’m on vacation now.” Now we have iOS, it’s a little raw, and we decided not to release it.
When you realize that you are at the epicentertsunami, it’s quiet there, of course, but something completely terrible is happening around. And we have such a situation now. And we need to understand what we will do next. To accelerate, firstly, and, secondly, to show what is really happening. Because everyone is asking questions, my phone dies every five minutes, it’s impossible to answer all the calls, answer all the emails, answer all the incoming messages. This is some kind of quiet horror, honestly, I sleep for four hours.
Andrey Burdin
- I'm still surprised: you wanted to collect data, well, you only rolled out the application for Android, plus you can fill out a form on your site. In reality, this does not work in Moscow, at least for individuals.
— In the Android application in black and whiteIt says on the last screen that we are now collecting statistics. It works with those who have entered into contracts with us. This is the first thing. Now this is a small number of people, and we are slowly increasing the number.
What's happening now? Data is being collected.There is data, and this is very important, do you know what big data is?! I looked at all the technological chains that local activists have, I realized where they were spending a lot of money, and I thought - we can do everything differently.
“I have to sell a kidney, an apartment to pay for these cars”
- You are going to build a fairly large infrastructure, as I understand it. This is the whole of Moscow, as announced, cars that come to the house and take all the garbage, you even pay for this waste.
- Firstly - the wrong question is perfect. We do not deal with garbage, so you understand. We do recycling.
- Well, recycle.
- Everyone is asking where you are taking the garbage. We do not take garbage, regional operators deal with garbage.
- But a lot of what we are throwing out now can be considered recyclable.
- Yes, and for this you need to do sorting.
— Many are ready to sort garbage. A truck comes to a person’s home and picks up recyclables from him.
- No, it is not, you are wrong, Ivan. We looked at the statistics. Our analyst is very deep, unlike all these enthusiasts. And fly into the money, as do other people, I have no desire. Because I have to sell a kidney, an apartment to pay for these cars. I am not ready to do this, I want to create a business model in which I make a profit. I am not an enthusiast, but an entrepreneur.
- I ask because this is exactly whatIt is written on Facebook: “It’s about like“ Yandex. Taxi, "you just press a button, and the garbage in landfills becomes less." What was the time when I was wrong when I said that the car was coming home to a person and picking up recycled materials?
- I explain. There are individuals, and there are legal. Individuals are in apartments, go to work, to schools and institutes. And legal entities are located in offices, they have separate buildings, people come to work for them, and they all produce garbage.
Photo: Anton Karliner / Haytek
- So your project is for legal entities?
- No, not only, it is for everyone.But now we can launch exactly the model for legal entities. We have worked out how to work with physicists, but this requires more money. Now banks don’t give us money, so there’s no huge turnover in our accounts. And taking off, burning fuel and breaking even, at best, and at worst, selling everything you have is pointless and stupid from an economic point of view, don’t you agree?
Startups don't work like that. What startup is running at a loss? If only the one who expects that some donations or sponsors will come to him. We decided to postpone it all, we are not interested.
- First, many startups work at a loss ...
- Well, yes, I am also a long time in startups. Probably one of the few who are very long. And I do not think that it is necessary to take and do everything as it is and start working at a loss, I don’t really like it so much.
- I don’t argue at all. As can be seen from the “Chisto-Chisto” website and the post on Facebook, your project will allow, including individuals, just sort the waste, and they will take it away and even pay for it. That is, now there is a project for legal entities, and people who thought that it works for individuals were mistaken?
- Yes, because we can not go to Altufyevo for four cans from under Pepsi-Cola, and then to Bibirevo, and then to Butovo, to pick up four more cans. This is not a business.
- Then why do you have a profile for individuals on your site?
- Because we collect data.
- It looks as if you are ready to take recyclables from individuals.
- We did it with a different purpose - to understand what people have and for which regions.
— I understand you perfectly: it’s cool that you collect data, but in this format it looks like deceiving users.
- No, this is not a deception of users. We collected data and it was written in black and white - leave iOS for iOS, and if you have Android, it says that we are collecting data and maybe we will take the equipment from you. This is in Android, you can see this.
- Okay, but I just don’t have Android, unfortunately.
- No, look, this is very important. No one is deceiving anyone. It simply says that we are now collecting data, and this is in every Android application.
- Well, plus the site is available. Okay.
- Nowhere is it written that we take and start to leave, you know.
- Okay, even under Facebook post, there are quite a few comments with questions, including interested individuals, which remained unanswered. You have not written anywhere else ...
- No, why, they write in private messages, in groupsVKontakte, Facebook, email, they call. You see what's going on. Between us boys, the fact is that environmentalists have started to attack us very well - these are all of them. They realized that we would now wrest all this from them. And they make very good money from this, so you understand.
"Everyone is evil, they think that we are cheating, we are collecting these unfortunate computers and we melt them"
- Then the question is about the further plans of the service "Clean Pure".
- We do an index update and say thatappeared section for legal entities. Because we have data and some serious big customers. We start working with them. In Leningrad, Moscow and soon we will work everywhere.
A lot of questions, all evil, we thinkwe deceive, we collect these unfortunate computers and we melt them, but we didn’t even call anyone and take nothing. We just want to see the statistics that people have.
- I understand the people who are annoying because it looks like you are ready to collect recyclables, and you are simply collecting their data.
- Yes, but here people are generally very accustomed toto invent something for yourself. They are accustomed to their reality and begin to invent things. But just so you understand, they don’t ask themselves how it really works. Those who are interested write to us. Everyone else starts making things up, and it's not quite what it really is. You need to know everything in order to judge something.
Photo: Anton Karliner / Haytek
- Is it planned to work with individuals as a result, or does it depend on the data that you are collecting now?
— There are several concepts, and we will try to work them out. And if one of them shows good results, then we will use it. This is such an endless experiment.
The country is really a problem, no one knows thatto do, everyone is trying to do something, but no one succeeds. And since I live in Kolomna, I know about it. We have such a dump Volovichi. Or maybe you heard about garbage riots - this is just Kolomna, Gudkov rides on this hyip (the leader of the Party of Changes Dmitry Gudkov is “High-Tech”). There, already in some region, an activist was overwhelmed, by the way. Have you heard about it? And this is true. But all these activists, as soon as you write to them, say that we will not let you in our field.
- You talked with some eco-activists and movements, and what came out of it? That is, for example, Greenpeace or someone else?
- I talked with the guys from VVC.
- VVC?
- Yes, this is a panda thing.
- WWF?
- Yes, yes, WWF. Here WWF at least answered me. They said we have a colleague in the office, write to her. But she has been silent for a week.
- Wait, WWF as far as I know, protects mostly animals.
- WWF in general for all this. But Greenpeace Russia said: “No, we will not write anything about you. What will you do with boot covers? ”. I say, we have developed equipment that allows part of the shoe covers to be separated from the gum, because it is hellish work. They say: "And what will you do with rubber bands?". Well, what to do with rezinochki, they can only be burned, can not be recycled. They say, but we don’t like to burn them, we will not write about you.
- I wanted to ask about the mission of the company. You say you need to do something ...
— The guys donated a little money to us,it turned out to be 10–12 thousand. And we did what no one else had done - we tried to figure out how to remove bisphenol from a check. This is a creepy, scary thing and is used very actively in thermal tapes. And it turned out that there are three ways. This is a dissolution, and the solvent is quite expensive. And when it reacts with bisphenol, it loses its properties and at some point stops working as a solvent, but simply turns into a liquid, which also needs to be disposed of, and this is an additional expense. And all this hell suggests that we just need to start collecting separate receipts and sending them to waste incineration plants. Just improve the plants themselves so that there are no emissions.
With checks really nothing can be done. Here either electronic payments, or prohibit the use of bisphenol, but these are just new lines for tape manufacturers, or at least just start collecting them separately, and store them, and carry them to burning plants, which in principle are even working. And download not plastic, but checks.
Huge story with that very muchInformation pops up with the fact that people want to pass plastic. And when you start asking them, what is the chemical composition of your plastic, they say that there is no marking. And when you tell them, ask the counterparties for the marking of your plastic, they say they do not want to disclose. And it is impossible to figure out all this, what kind of plastic it is, what to do with it in general, how to recycle. A huge number of things that are not completely marked, come to us from China. And all this is small, piece copies, and to make everything controlled is impossible simply. Chinese - it, of course, breaks down, otherwise we would drive Chinese cars, and not German ones.
“We have a complete ass with tetrapack in the country”
- Well, what are you then trying to do in "Clean Pure"?
— We are trying to make sure that in the countrya lot of recyclable materials appeared, and we did not import raw materials from abroad. We organized the collection, did the most difficult work, figured out how to pick everything up from below. But no activists could do this. We can fill factories with recyclable materials.
But the fact is that the capacities in the country are not ready forsuch a volume of recyclables that may appear. And we now have a term that we call “raw material overpressure”. That is, there is no capacity in any region for processing a specific type of product. Or it is not ready to deal with it. The main idea is this: people can turn to us, we can work with banks that will give loans to people in order for them to create jobs, make production small, which will work, say, in Perm, or let it be Astrakhan. But that was not this monstrous logistics. For example, the nearest processing plant “Tetrapak” to Moscow is located 450 kilometers away. And on logistics eats a lot of money. And therefore it is not profitable for anyone to carry it.
- We all know that in our country there are very big institutional problems with recycling. It was never a secret to anyone. But you come to this market and ...
- We don’t talk about garbage at all, we don’t say that word. We say the word recyclable.
Photo: Anton Karliner / Haytek
- Well, with recycling.
- And it becomes rubbish when people take and say, we will throw it in a landfill.
— Okay, I agree, in Russia there are big problems with recycling recyclable materials.
- There are no problems with recycling.
- You just said that there is not enough power ...
- I say, we have little processed at all in the country it ...
- This is the problem, no?
- This will become a problem. Especially what is little processed and needs to be built. But again, power is good. Because it means new jobs, less imports and competitiveness.
- I wanted to narrow the topic and talk about "Clean Pure." Do you want to somehow develop the entire infrastructure, take recyclables from legal entities and take it to processing plants and earn money on it?
- Not only. Something will go to local receivers, something - to processing plants. It depends on the data, and the data may change. For example, in a certain area, in a local store, a new milk suddenly appears - and it is in a glass package, and other data begins to grow there. Accordingly, you need to carry the glass. The data is important, and I believe that the data should always be in realtime, it is very important. Not that statistics after four years. Because if we have fresh data, we can instantly change the direction of flows, be optimized.
- I just still do not think that the selectedyou are a way to collect data from individuals, let's say, ethically correct. You could just say - guys, help us, please, with your data. But I'm not talking about that now. The data you are collecting now, what do they already tell you?
- Firstly, they say that we have a complete mess with Tetrapak in the country. Complete ass.
- What else?
— We have excess capacity of Tetrapak,excess glass capacity, and these are quite expensive things. Glass can only be melted. And we don’t have small compact glass factories or melting plants in the country at all.
- Andrei, but we all knew that before collecting data from individuals. What did the new collection of data of individuals tell you? That we do not have plants, we know that.
- You do not understand. For the economy, it means something else. Let it be hypothetical, but Sberbank can now issue loans for long futures for recyclables. There will be factories, they will process raw materials, they will have to wrestle with and invest in marketing. We have a fundamentally new concept.
- Can you then again ...
- Compact processing plants. They do not require logistics and are exactly where there is raw materials. These plants are mobile, you can quickly take them to the railway platform and move to another place.
- Andrei, I do not quite understand. You talked about mobile plants, as about a new concept, before that you said that you yourself would not build plants.
- You do not understand. No matter who will do it in the end, I tell you how it will be in 10–20 years. Everything is always based on data analysis, all research, the whole economy, is based on data, statistics. And compact processing lines are the future. It makes no sense to build a separate plant somewhere near Novosibirsk, suppose glass is, because manufacturers at some point may say - we will no longer use glass, we will switch to plastic. As it happened. Accordingly, this plant will be unprofitable without raw materials. He will burn. And if it is compact, mobile, it can be transferred to where it will be most needed at this moment.
- Andrei, then the last question. Once again in one sentence, the concept of the project "Clean Pure".
— “Clean-Clean” is Uber for garbage.Now, after analyzing the data, we decided that it is best to work with large producers of recyclable materials, or rather garbage. But they are ready to introduce separate collection, because they pay a lot for the removal of solid household waste. And “Chisto-Chisto” helps companies and individuals reduce the cost of solid waste removal. It is enough to conclude an agreement with us, we will supply tanks for separate waste collection from our partners, or companies install them themselves. They begin to sort what they get and hand it over to us. Accordingly, less goes to landfills, in this case we really keep our promise. This is the solution to the problem of landfills at the touch of a finger. Because there is an agreement, there is a separate fee, and there is an application. And everything happens exactly as we said, we are not deceiving anyone. Now we will start working in one area in Moscow, in one area in Leningrad and will slowly approximate. Or maybe quickly. Let's see.